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MVI Desk

Veterans  Debate: "Role & Function Of CAPF's & Armed Forces To Collectively Counter  India's External & Internal Threats"


 

Spark For Debate

 


The spark for the debate on above subject was a recent post by Col Mukul Dev on the social media  pertaining to the Govt   directions for  sustained downsizing of the Army under RM  and constant expansion of CAPF's under HM besides several other issues that  clearly reflected the Govt intention to downsize and downplay the Armed Forces vis a vis the parallel Army of CAPF's which is being expanded without commensurate role ,accountability or responsibility as shouldered by the Armed forces both for external and internal threats emanating from time to time .

The image of the post by Col Mukul Dev is att for reference.

 

 

Trigger For Debate

 

Brig Pradeep Sharma:

 

It indicates the relevance and importance being given to the Armed Forces by this government.

 Also tells us how effectivev our  CDS and Chief are.

 

Perhaps a debate to set the record straight?

India's threats and response mechanism.

How will borders and internal security  play in future wars ?

 Diverse Forces under different operational commands and ministries? Intelligence under other controlling centers.

 Is there a need to introspect?

 


Editor's Note

 

Based on above Spark and Trigger ,

MVI invited responses  from veterans of the three Services for an objective debate to examine the validity of  the  issues highlighted ,the history behind them and causes  for the same and the  way out or solutions to rectify / resolve these  issues in the highest interest of  the armed forces, CAPF's and nation .

The  rich and varied Responses  received by MVI published below  throw considerable light on many issues and give the readers a deep insight into the  role and functioning of the military and CAPF's for meeting  India's external and internal threats and  complex  and sensitive   issues that must be resolved in supreme national interest !

We request readers to kindly  peruse all the responses (so painstakingly articulated by experienced war veterans with vast experience ,first hand professional military  knowledge and roles played at  different levels and appointments) to  draw their own individual conclusions .

 

 

Col Vinay B Dalvi

Editor ,MVI

 


 

Responses from Veterans

 

 Gp Capt Johnson Chacko:

 

The issues raised look  valid.

 I'm not sure if commissioned officers are looking forward to joining  CAPFs ?

 

Redressal needs to be done by CCS.

The Army should withdraw from CI/CT/IS duties as it is the primary job of CAPFs.

 It doesn't take 37 yrs to train CAPFs to tackle militants.

 

Looks like the Army has a stake in getting involved with CI/CT/IS duties rather than train to do their primary job of Warfighting.

 

The philosophical underpinnings are vastly different.

 

Cdr Ravindra Pathak:

Have you heard of the great Saint who was sitting on a branch and cutting it.

Well, I hope I have answered the question as to who is responsible?

 

Col Shivaji Ranjan Ghosh:

Army &  Police Roles  ...What went wrong ??

 



Once upon a time, the army was army, and the police was police.

The army wore olive green, the police wore khaki.

Army officers wore Sam Browne and brown footwear.

Then one day, the police officers decided to wear the Sam Browne and brown footwear.

And the army looked the other way at first, and then decided to let go of these.

The army wore badges of rank that were based on that of the British Army.

Then one day, the police officers decided to wear the exact same badges of rank, but with lesser service.

And the Army looked the other way.

The Army decided to introduce combat uniforms in disruptive camouflage colours.

Then one day, the police decided to introduce combat uniforms in disruptive camouflage colours.

And the Army looked the other way.

Army units were traditionally honoured with the President’s Colours, which, in the old days, were carried into battle.

Then one day, police forces were also awarded the President’s Colours, although they had never gone into battle.

And the Army looked the other way.

The Army had a most sacred and solemn ceremony known as Beating the Retreat. The lowering of the flags symbolized the cessation of hostilities for the day, tending of the wounded and recovery of the dead.

Then one day, police forces hijacked the ceremony and converted into a vaudeville carnival.

And the Army looked the other way.

The Army protected their own, made sure that the power of the Army was clearly understood.

Then one day, the police took a serving soldier into custody, stripped and beat him, and said that the police is the “baap” of the army.

And on another day the police dragged away octogenarian veteran and their wives sitting in peaceful protest.

And the Army looked the other way.

Moral of the story: “Little drops into an ocean grow”. Drop by drop, we have allowed ourselves to grow irrelevant and redundant. And it is we who have let it happen.

 

 

Col Pk Royal Mehrishi:

 

Well written, Sir, this is the failing of the Army !

 

Brig Pradeep Sharma:

 

At a time when our neighbourhood is in turmoil,internally we are turbulent, defence budget is woefully short, pension bills are hurting but funds are being squandered on expansion plans for CAPFs who have also been given NFFU!    

To the best of my knowledge,  India can not have an Army larger than a limit laid down by the UN , therefore, the emphasis on RR & CAPFs.                 

 A possible fallout could be to relieve the Army completely from CI/CT responsibility and position them along borders in sensitive areas. Alternatively, it's back to barracks to train for their regular operational tasks.    The repercussions for the Army obviously would be a further loss of standing and respect as happened when we refused to take on Disaster Relief and Provide for NSG!

A realistic study is required to match rupee to rupee being spent on Armed Forces, our shortfall, threats, and vulnerabilities compared to the extravaganza available for CAPFs.

 Projections need to  be made by Army Headquarters asking for a reduction of funds and transfer of the same to Defence budget.

 But who will do it? Obviously, the Saint cutting the very Branch he sits on cannot be expected to  do so!

 



 

Maj Gen Rana Goswami:

 

Every word of Col Shivaji Ranjan Ghosh's post is correct !

 

Brig Pradeep Sharma:

 

Very true !

Who is responsible for this? Our own leadership who has always been self-centered,  looking for personal rewards   from the  political masters.

This continues even today. Perhaps the last selfless Chief was Late Gen Paddy?

 

A Feed Back From a Serving Officer:

 

The Army is the Army

By copying dresses and ceremonies, you can only become COPYCAT and not the real deal.

Dresses and ceremonies do not define you - otherwise, Vicky Kaushal and Hrithik Roshan would be Param Veer Chakra and Shah Rukh would be an Olympic Medalist.

 

By abusing power, you can never become powerful - you can only become a tyrant.

 

If Col  S R Ghosh feels that the  Army has become irrelevant and redundant,  he's in some world with no reality check .

 

 Col Shivaji Ranjan Ghosh:

 

Sir, is one word that I have written not true?

I have not said that the Army HAS become irrelevant and redundant. Certainly not! I said that we are allowing ourselves to become so, a drop at a time. What I have implied is that it is time for us to introspect, think hard, and take necessary actions.

If this officer thinks that I am in a world with no reality check, let me quote an example from my own experience, two decades old, but I guess still holding true.

I was posted as a Col in HQ NSG, with some 28 years of service. The DG (IPS) was junior in service to the two Army IGs (Maj Gens), who reported to him. The IG (IPS) and the two DIGs (IPS) were junior to me (the latter had exactly half my service) but carried all the privileges and status of the rank they wore. Please tell me who allowed this to happen? They were NOT copycat, as stated by this serving officer. They were, unfortunately, the real deal.

Use any word, "powerful" or "tyrant", that matters little. What matters is that a powerful tyrant gets away with his tyranny unless someone stands up to him. Is anyone doing so? I'll be the happiest person if there really is someone who does so, like the young CO who sorted out the police a few years ago.

 


Brig Pradeep Sharma:

 

The essence of this discussion can perhaps be summed up by saying

 "Those at AHQ need to accept feedback with a positive attitude and secondly the environment needs to see them being more pro active in maintaining organisational interests " .

 

 

 Brig Neil John :

(Analysing & Highlighting the Facts on Ground as experienced/ observed from up close at various levels  )

 

I just decided to hang my spurs one day. Cause I got tired of it all. Not because of irrelevance, but because of the mediocrity that started being accepted as the norm. Where a guy sitting in a plush ac office and playing golf with the hierarchy and speaking the right language earned more points than those that operated with the men in the field. Where army HQ was given a larger prominence than those  operating from weather beaten out posts. Where a guy with course gradings won the battle of promotions, postings and the UN. Where parochialism was set as a norm, with pro rata taking the juice out of the stake. It didn’t stop at promotions, but was extended to courses, foreign postings and even appointments. Where the army set itself up for being ridiculed, cause we had no strategy and no planning, most of our strategy and planning came from borrowed western philosophies and power point ensured we cut, copied and pasted well. Where war games end up with Blue land as winners despite everyone knowing that terrain and weather are the most important factors in mountain warfare. Then comes technology and might. Where we felt that red runners and closing roads to allow only flag cars to ply on it, is the signs of military superiority. Where CI ops became a tool kit for medals and senior ranks started getting awards cause they managed their appointments well. Where ladies started wearing titles like First Lady, family welfare became a projection tool and ladies meet and extravaganza. Where games and sports and unit tenures took a back seat for ACRs and a DSSC grading brought you your next rank. Where senior leadership to be relevant even ran the smallest of operations from their office, leaving the CO to just go YES SIR, YES SIR, YES SIR. Where veterans started feeling that they were no longer respected. Where sitting in office late hours was counted as hard working and brought you brownie points again. Where small indiscretions by young officers and men that were to be admonished by the CO, became a court of inquiry, cause everyone wanted to set examples. Where no risk management and directionless leadership took over existence. Where all the work to be done, needed to be visible in my short tenure became a practice. Where prize postings were taken over by the boys of the AHQ. Where finally people who called a spade a spade brought insecurities within the mediocre and survival therefore called for dissections.

 

Sir we aren’t irrelevant, we have just started accepting mediocrity. Lessons from the way the Italians operated in the North African campaign in WW2 should strike us as to where we are heading. We have become an army that wants to stay in the middle of things, cause in disruptions survive the mediocre.

 

Col HS Gill:

 

For the serving, I just want to add one line.

Some of us have seen better days despite meager pay & allowances, that’s why we, the veterans, feel the pain and fight for your betterment !

 

Col Shivaji Ranjan Ghosh:

 

Brig Neil John has said it all !

Like I said earlier, the truth hurts. But brushing the truth under the carpet will hurt even more!

 

Unfortunately, the pain will be felt at the grassroot level, not by those who are, as Brig John has mentioned "sitting in a plush ac office and playing golf with the hierarchy and speaking the right language ! "

 

Maj Gen Rana Goswami:

Well brought out, Neil.

I've felt all this personally during my own service. Insecurity of the mediocre, the bane of our system. There are good people as well, but they are few and far between.

Very few who call a spade a spade as well.

Sad commentary, this HAS TO CHANGE, if we are to remain relevant. Professional and intellectual dishonesty has to be done away with.

 



Gp Capt Johnson Chacko:

 

A very well written post  by Col Ghosh  regarding the down gradation of status of military vis-a-vis police.

I was detailed as the IAF contingent commander to take part in the Independence day celebration in

Hyderabad. I came to know that the parade cdr was an SP with lesser service than me. I refused to be  a part of the parade on grounds that I cannot take orders from my junior. I asked the JWO to take

charge. Next day I was changed and a Flt Lt was detailed.

We mix up Ranks and Appointments. Police does not have ranks. The moment there is a situation where both have to interact, the first question that we try to answer is who is senior? The moment he is addressed SIR (Servile I Remain) and a salute is offered, the degradation takes place. I have

always addressed anyone in the Civil services as Mister. Police are a part of civil services. To become a  part of IPS he has to get through the Civil Services exams.

There needs to be running scale of pay from Lt to Lt Gen based on  years of service. The basic pay needs to be 10% higher than Civil services as it is a tougher job to do.

I was briefed by the DA before meeting a High Commissioner that he is equivalent to a Lt Gen,before being introduced in his office. I was told that I need to salute and address him as SIR. I greeted him a “Good Morning Mr………I am ……” without a salute. We became good friends. The DA

was a Brig, so nothing could be done. So was the case with the Defence Secretary.

Military Service is tougher than the Civil Services. That is agreed throughout the world. So we need to be compensated more. The earlier the politicos understand this the better. A civilian tells me at

the height of OROP agitation that the military has the highest power so why don’t your Generals guide the politicians for a better deal than sitting in Jantar Mantar. If the generals don’t have the

balls, then you deserve it.

Do we deserve the Generals that we have is the moot question? What is the criteria for promotion?

Should Rank be linked to pay or years of service with an allowance for Command?

Potential is to be promoted and performance rewarded, goes the age old saying. There is no doubt

that we need true professionals and leaders/managers at the top. In the IAF the first selective promotion was Sqn Ldr to Wg Cdr. One needs to be a thorough professional to be selected in the

first look. The second was Wg Cdr to Gp Capt. As a Wg Cdr one used to get a Sqn to command.

Leadership and managerial skills get evaluated. If one became a Gp Capt in the first look then there are no hurdles to become an Air Mshl unless age catches up, vacancies do not exist or one forfeits

due to misdemeanors. So as a Gpt Capt one could express his frank professional views to an Air Mshl. That is good for the IAF. Now the IAF follows the same fierce competition that the Army has, probably giving rise to mediocrity ruling the roost! I feel that there is a case to revert.

The appraisal system is the root cause of mediocrity getting promoted. Other attributes such as sycophancy, regimental affiliations, golf buddies etc. buttress promotion of mediocrity. Once they

reach such positions they perpetuate it sidelining the meritorious professionals. I feel that besides reverting to the old IAF system, we need to make self-assessment a part of appraisal. If there is a

difference of opinion, then the RO can resolve it. The entire report needs to be open and not confidential including RO’s and SRO’s.

Character, Ability and Performance commensurate with Ability needs to be assessed. Attributes can flow out of these. The performance of a psc, hdmc, hcc, ndc, needs to be at a higher level than those who have not done these Ability enhancement courses. His additional contribution the unit/service needs to be assessed. Innovative ideas to enhance combat/cost effectiveness adds to the potential.

Mere badges should not get additional marks. If a trainee pilot meets with an accident, he may be pardoned. However, if an experienced instructor meets with the same accident, he needs to be

heavily penalized.

While it is easy to assess performance, it is difficult to assess potential. Potential can be assessed when one is officiating. In the IAF, move to op location prior to the balloon going up, of a Sqn is to be done 24 hrs. The Sqn that I was in had two different aircraft and move to op location was ordered by

the AOC in C. It had three different op locations. The officiating CO moved the Sqn in 3.5 hours and

sent a signal to AOC in C that the Sqn was ready for the first mission, subsequent missions need transport support (Airmen and eqpt). The potential was noticed and in the subsequent promotion

board the AOC in C ensured that he was promoted irrespective of what else was in his report. The corollary is that the CO needs to be sent on leave, to rest and recuperate while the 2IC/Coy Cdr gets

an opportunity to show his potential. It should be the same for higher appointments.

Unless the current system of appraisal is corrected, mediocrity will rule. Positional power (based on appointment) needs to be reduced in favour of Personal (professionalism) power. This will prevent

degradation as we will have the top brass with personal power.

 



 

Col Amitabh Shastri:

 

The stark reality is that attire, not only aids distinction, but it also frames the first impression. Differences in uniform of schools or organisations provide the distinction. With police forces being copy cats of defence uniforms, this distinction has faded away now. Today neither the man nor the media distinguishes armed forces from para-military forces. Despite no similarity in their roles, for the common man and media, all armed forces are military. But ask the head of CAPF if they have the competence to face the adversary... their answer reveals the truth. Yet they wish to give that false appearance (ego). Posting of sr police offrs to head CAPF organisations, no doubt, has been one of the major reasons for changes in perspective. Not good for the country... dismal outlook into the future!!!

 

Cdr Ravindra Pathak:

 

We are to blame for relating the Rank ,a pure internal administrative need  ,with related pay.

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